HBO “Mediateca” begins the second season of “World Wild West”: the androids-hosts inspired by a Western theme Park already rebelled against humanity, but their path to self-determination has only just begun. The showrunners of one of the most ambitious TV series of our time Jonathan Nolan (brother of Christopher and co-author of many of his projects) and his wife Lisa joy said “the Tape.ru” the philosophy inherent in the story, the deliberate obfuscation of the audience and his vision of the future of artificial intelligence.
“Ribbon.ru”: “the Wild West” compared to the Bible, the works of Jung. What inspires you to raise in the series of philosophical questions?
Jonathan Nolan: I don’t think the Bible answers all questions about human psychology. We are much more interested in thinkers contemporaries: Daniel Dennett, Douglas Hofstadter, Marvin Lee Minsky. We are concerned about this area of intersection between the ideas of those people who are trying to create artificial intelligence, and those who practice pure philosophy. Their findings now that we understand a little better how things work, particularly relevant. Where did the consciousness? Where is its beginning? That will be the beginning for the creation of artificial intelligence? Of course, it is too much remains a mystery to us. How little we understand our own consciousness! In fact, we just started to create the appropriate technology, but if you look at the architecture with all the latest innovations, the latest advances in the field of creating artificial intelligence, we immediately understand: we, the people, no longer at the helm. If the machines will do at least another step forward and begin to reflect, we will cross the border. We will no longer build machines that analyze chess moves — they will be replaced by machines that will rely on their own intuition. We have already embarked on this path of progress, we have no idea what’s going on in the depths of the “soul” of artificial intelligence — as well as do not understand everything that happens to ourselves! In short, in preparation for the “World Wild West” we’ve read a lot on my mind and in the end never found the answers, but we have questions and, hopefully, very interesting!
how do you feel about the fact that fans are actively set for the decryption of the ideas of the series?
Lisa joy: (Laughs) to be honest, I’m scared to read all these fan-made calculations — it’s like take a long hard look in the mirror! No one wants to be so obsessed with himself. All we want is to do my job as best you can! I’m glad people like the TV series that they watch it. I often see figures of fans, some even print — their vision of the “World” inspires me, but I’m honestly too shy to delve into the thoughts of the audience.
Jonathan Nolan: I from time to time I read a fan theory, and every time I get so much pleasure! All of us — a group of writers, Directors, actors — are very laid on this show, so it’s nice that our work analyzed for this almost molecular level!
what you want to say second season? What didn’t get to talk to first?
Lisa joy: the First season was a story about creatures who sought and longed for freedom, the right to self-determination and freedom of choice. They tried to find a way out of the time loops, which were concluded. So now that they have this freedom, it turns out that its acquisition was only the first step. Now the hosts need to understand who they are, what they will do, what is their purpose, how they will react to an imperfect, cruel world. There are many paths that opened up for the characters.
Considering that in the series people play the gods against the hosts, yourself, when to hide from the actors all the details of the scenario are not afraid to anger them?
Jonathan Nolan: (Laughs) Let’s hope this end did not. This series is including about the storytellers, and the stories that they tell about their characters and the audience, but we hope that our relations with the actors develop much better than humans and androids in the “World Wild West”.
as far As I know, you have code names for each season. The first season seems to be called “Labyrinth” and the second “Door”. What do they mean?
Jonathan Nolan: Right!
Lisa joy: Want to know where exactly does that door lead?
Jonathan Nolan: For us it is an opportunity to outline some of the framework of the question we ask ourselves in this season. For example, in the first season of the very form of the labyrinth reminded us of consciousness. And the door in the second season symbolizes the desire of the hosts to look beyond the world where they were before, the desire to understand our place in the universe they occupy.
what is the story with Reddit and numerous revelations of the plot? This time you lead the audience in a false direction?
Jonathan Nolan: Oh, Yes, in fact, even Lisa and each other constantly confusing! We would not want to deliberately confuse the audience, of course. Reddit users during the first season at times anticipate our plot twists because of the fact that we always wanted to be honest with the audience and deliberately at something hinted in the trailer, and then scattered the bread crumbs from there throughout the series. Plus in Reddit sit smart people who are watching the show very carefully. Some of our clues were obvious, but it was intentional to make the most of the audience were able to take a picture together. We writers do not write turning points for turning points. We didn’t want to show the whole episode just from the point of view of Dolores, or just the story from the perspective of the hosts. Someone very smart once told me: “a Good plot twist will surprise you, but in essence it is always imminent.” So we wanted to give the audience the ground from under his feet completely gone, otherwise they would have started to reject the series itself. We wanted the audience already figured out that, for example, one who, she trusts, someone she considers the worst enemy is one and the same person, only with a difference in 30 past years. We watched the reactions of the Internet and people seem to twist this much. At least they appreciated how carefully the creators of the series had led them to this. To take the same “Game of thrones”: the first five seasons all knew that would happen, because their story was already revealed in the books, but the fans carefully guarded spoilers from the audience, unfamiliar with the work of George Martin. The same approach trying to adhere to we.
In the new season, you too will give the audience these clues?
Lisa joy: I prefer to look at the world from the point of view of the characters and their feelings, to observe how they see what is happening. I will say this: the more our characters will open, the easier it will be to piece together this puzzle!
If we talk about where will start the second season… as far As I know, it starts not at the end of the first, there will be a time jump.
Jonathan Nolan: Not quite. We have the structure of the series is different. Remember the first season. There, we flirted with the idea that history could be a hidden meaning, showing that Dolores is very similar to human, but not people. She wasn’t programmed to understand the concept of “here and now”. It does not distinguish between present and past time. Memories she, too, has not been programmed, not to mention the function calls to these memories. Her artificial intelligence is reminiscent of those technologies that we use in the real world: your phone suddenly begins to forget the pictures you did a year ago. Sometimes, of course, anything can happen (laughs). Nevertheless, the phones reproduce the image exactly the same as four years ago: these images have not changed over the years of storage in memory. But in people with memory amazing relationship (laughs). About any accurate reproduction of memories can not be considered. On the other hand, we are not lost in these memories, remember when happened one thing or another. The androids of the “World Wild West”, with a perfect memory, can not determine the place of these memories just because they don’t understand the concept of the present or past. If not for that, the life of Dolores would have been different.
This is exactly what interested us in the process of filming the series — not how hosts are similar, and in what they differ from us. They also suffer from amnesia on the contrary — I remember everything, but I don’t know what place they occupy in these memories. Dolores in the first season of figure it out. Therefore, it is interesting its role in the second season — she will remember what others can’t. It is, in essence, a step ahead of everyone. The other characters are in a completely different situation, especially hero Jeffrey Wright. By the way, we spent a lot of time in this new season: I would like to reveal his position, his suffering from understanding that he is the host and that some of his memories were hidden from him. But most importantly, understand that the very perception of time the host is different from ours.
Much of what happens in the series, is already becoming a reality in the laboratories of Silicon valley. They say that from the appearance of the androids is similar to the hosts of the series, we are only ten years.
Jonathan Nolan: We consult with many specialists: neuroscientists, robotics experts on artificial intelligence. Everyone has their own answer to this question. You know, it’s one thing to create an anthropomorphic robot, and another to create a mind that can naturally support an interesting conversation. To take the same “Alex” or “Siri”, which became part of normal life for 20-30 million people for the time that we shot the “Wild West”! Some communicate with the “Alexa” almost every day! On the other hand, was amazing how quickly it all happens, but I think to a full AI, we are still far. I am sure of one thing: everything happens not as we now assume. The future is an amazing combination of qualities — it can disappoint and surprise. We all expect that there will be the same creatures as in the “World Wild West”, but we likely will be faced with networks of artificial intelligence.
the word on language and social interaction, and it helped the internationality of the cast of “World Wild West”?
Lisa joy: From the point of view of globalization the idea is to consider only the American point of view is unnatural. For example, westerns are considered a purely American genre. In fact, the idea of a Western originated in Japan, and some of the best examples of the genre took Director from Italy! We do not live in a vacuum, and the farther progress, the more technology develops, the more people see themselves as part of one ecosystem. We are all the same species that affect each other. But what happens if you add into that equation yet and beings with artificial intelligence? They obviously won’t share on a national basis! We tried to reflect that in the series.
For example, I just returned from Taiwan where we went with the children to visit my grandfather. So if we talk about the international part of the show… See for yourself: I am a first-generation immigrants, Jonathan and all born in London. I grew up not only on American culture, American writers or movies. I love that I have the opportunity to share with the world your knowledge and learn even more in the global culture of so many interesting, and we see only the tip of the iceberg. What I like about globalization is cultural exchange between different countries and peoples — I think we live in a great time!
what can you tell me about the musical component of the show?
Jonathan Nolan: I think the soundtrack gave us the opportunity to gently remind the audience that although this series looks like a historical, in fact, all the events unfold in the future. On the other hand, the music is also programmed emotions. When you hear a familiar song that you have certain feelings, but to control them you may not always! It is very interesting how people react to the music, what emotions they cause songs they’ve heard before, which buttons in our minds they push. I was captivated by the idea that you can manipulate the audience’s vision of a particular scene through music. That is why we used the popular songs, but modified them! In addition, I was interested in working with Ramin Javadi (wrote the music for such TV series and films as “Game of Thrones”, “Pacific rim” and “Iron man,” — approx. “Of the tape.ru”), he is a great composer.
in General, considering all the possibilities of neuroprogramming what, in your opinion, the main difference between people from the host?
Jonathan Nolan: Good question.
Lisa joy: you Know, when people talk about artificial intelligence, they immediately ask questions from a series: “When he appears? When robots will be so good that to distinguish them from person would be almost impossible?” And I wonder: why people have decided that artificial intelligence must limit itself to the level of human intelligence? Why do you think that he will not go into its development on us? We already give the machines very much a part of our memory left in the phone! How many times a day you look down at him and reconciled with him? How many times a day you say something like: “Now going to Google the answer to this question.” Or trying to learn a song in Shazam? This is something like a human external hard drive. Technology still enclosed in the body of the device uncomfortable, but who told you that artificial intelligence will not outgrow this body? Why would he limit? What will happen when AI will be able to overcome it? And who knows what androids will experience in relation to sex, morality and society?
the Premiere of the second season of “World Wild West” in the “Mediateca” will be held April 23,